The Ukrainian Week sat down with Lieutenant General Oleksandr Skipalskyi, a respected military leader and statesman who has been instrumental in shaping Ukraine’s security landscape.
After Ukraine’s independence, General Skipalskyi was at the forefront of building the country’s security structures, earning a reputation as one of the key figures in establishing an intelligence system free from Soviet control. In the early 1990s, he was appointed head of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ministry of Defence, a pivotal role in Ukraine’s security transformation.
Skipalskyi also served in parliament from 1994 to 1998 as part of the Defence and State Security Committee and held the position of Deputy Head of the Security Service of Ukraine twice—first between 1997 and 1998 and then again from 2006 to 2007. Today, he is the Honorary Chair of the Board of the Association of Ukrainian Intelligence Veterans.
In the first part of the interview, Oleksandr Skipalsky focused on the history of Soviet intelligence services. In this part, we delve into a discussion about the functioning of Ukraine’s intelligence services amid war and global transformations.
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– With the onset of the active phase of the Russian-Ukrainian war, the world is rapidly changing—perhaps a shift that should have begun in 2014, but was ignored, much like the response to Russia’s 2008 attack on Georgia. By 2022, there was no choice but to act. Today, Ukraine has become a key factor in global politics, with tensions between North and South Korea, and between China and Taiwan escalating, along with intensified hostilities in the Middle East between Israel and Islamic terrorist groups. Ukraine is at the centre of this global confrontation, creating significant challenges for its intelligence services. How prepared are they for this today?
– Truth be told, we’re learning quickly. Let’s not forget the GUR’s special operations in Afghanistan, Africa, Mali, or the incredibly complex mission to liberate Zmiinyi Island. Our potential is so significant that, at times, it leaves Western intelligence agencies stunned.
Back in 1983, when I was working in KGB-controlled Vladivostok, we already had evidence showing how China was expanding its influence in Africa and Latin America using its distinctive financial methods. It was deceptively simple—through loans that African tribes squandered, leaving mineral resources as payment. This allowed China to gradually gain power. Furthermore, I’m convinced that Russia’s war against Ukraine didn’t happen without China’s approval. It served their interests by weakening Russia, fueling conflicts, and framing Ukraine as one of the catalysts.
Still, I hope that Europe and America will shake off their illusions and realise that the real threat is not so much to Ukraine, but to their own influence over the future economy and technology. If they don’t, China will dominate these areas, ultimately absorbing the entire European world.
I was encouraged by the first official speech of the King of the United Kingdom at the meeting in Paris, where he stated that this threat must push the world to unite and ensure that Ukraine does not lose.
Let’s be honest: the occupation of Ukraine, which Putin had hoped for, would have replenished his army’s reserves. History has repeatedly shown that what seemed like Russian wars were, in reality, fought by Ukrainian regiments. Ukrainians made up the backbone of the Russian imperial army. Look at Suvorov’s crossing of the Alps, the battles of Sevastopol, or the wars in the Balkans. Even the tsarist generals weren’t always of Russian origin. For the first time in history, Russia is not waging war with Ukrainians but against them. This is exactly what Putin wanted to achieve. I hope, with time, Europe will realise that betraying Ukraine would lead to widespread discontent among Ukrainians, many of whom Russia would then mobilise for its own wars.
So, the role of our intelligence services today is to carry out operations, collaborate, and help our Western partners understand the potential threats posed not only by Russia but also, without a doubt, by China.
– Do you think the President and Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada fully grasp these global challenges? Is it possible for our government to avoid interfering in the professional work of intelligence services? Right now, they seem to see these services as a threat to themselves, constantly trying to limit and control their actions.
– I believe their level of awareness is very limited. They are allowing the internal situation in Ukraine to deteriorate and fail to understand that foreign policy is fundamentally based on domestic policy. Instead of focusing on waging an armed struggle against the aggressor and strengthening the country’s economic foundation, they continue to tolerate those who destroy, plunder, steal, and organise smuggling. The lack of genuine action is a clear sign that they do not fully understand what they are doing, including in this regard.
— With the war ongoing, security forces are traditionally the most crucial institution for our future. In your view, how well do the army and intelligence services, in the broadest sense, understand their historical mission and responsibility?
— I don’t claim to have an exclusive perspective, but after analysing these aspects, I can say that the understanding and awareness of responsibility aren’t concentrated in the General Staff or the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine. Instead, they are found on the front lines—in the forward units, where bullets fly, shells explode, friends are lost, and people are maimed or killed. In large part, these individuals sacrifice their lives for their children and for the future.
Perhaps some of the leadership also grasp this on an individual level. For example, this is most evident in the Main Directorate of Intelligence, where Kyrylo Budanov, recognising his historical responsibility, pointedly honours a liaison officer of the UPA with the slogan, “Ukraine above all!” Before 2014, anyone in leadership who made such statements would have been labelled a “Banderite.” As far as I know, a similar ideology is being instilled at the SBU academy.
However, I don’t see any coordinated, thoughtful, or pedagogically sound efforts on social media or television from the Ministry of Defence or the General Staff. If such efforts were made, they could form the foundation for mobilisation work. It’s not just about pulling people together and sending them straight to the front lines—it’s about educating and explaining that the issue at hand today is the “existence or assimilation of the Ukrainian nation.”
Had we been defeated in 2022, Ukrainians would have been completely assimilated into the global order. This was precisely the goal of the Russian elite. They had already planned to divide Ukrainians into three categories: those to be eliminated, those forced to rebuild and restore Russia, and those reduced to simple servitude.
— What are your thoughts on Ukraine joining NATO, and what changes or reforms do our intelligence services need to undergo on the path to the Alliance?
— The unity of NATO member states makes them stronger and safer. Undoubtedly, Ukraine’s inclusion would be the most reliable pillar. However, aspiration alone isn’t enough. I’ve mentioned before how, during Yushchenko’s presidency, instead of diligently preparing our society for NATO membership, our leaders were preoccupied with internal squabbles between the president and the prime minister, leaving room for the enemy to exploit this openly. There was no professional explanation, no meaningful effort, no influence.
There is a lot of work to be done, but reforming the intelligence services is one of the easier tasks. What’s more challenging is transforming our society’s moral and psychological state, especially in the fight against corruption. Just think of one of the recent healthcare corruption scandals (the State Bureau of Investigation found nearly $6 million in cash at the home of Tetiana Krupa, the head of the Khmelnytsky Regional Medical and Social Expertise Centre). The whole system is rife with cynicism, corruption, and bribery—prosecutors, police, and tax officials. This needs to be eradicated. Has anyone been held accountable for past scandals? Perhaps Reznikov, who turned the Ministry of Defence into a mafia-like structure? Order must be established—and it can be done if there is the will and the determination to do so.
— What message would you like to share with your colleagues, Generals Vasyl Malyuk and Kyrylo Budanov?
— I hope that Vasyl Malyuk, as head of the Security Service of Ukraine, will focus on strengthening the institution without looking to any officials for guidance. If the state and Constitution have entrusted you with leadership, then lead the Service fully. If someone is unfit, dismiss them. If you find someone intelligent and reliable, appoint them. Don’t rely on officials with questionable backgrounds and connections who may claim to have influence.
To Kyrylo Budanov, I would say you’re on the right path. Yes, there are challenges ahead, but as the saying goes, don’t be afraid and don’t ask for things. Keep doing your work, because it’s vital—ensuring Ukraine’s security and safeguarding its national interests.
